Comments on: Why I have an ‘extreme’ alter-ego http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/ The Virtual Investor Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:34:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Hugh MacLeod http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-29404 Hugh MacLeod Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:48:48 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-29404 Tom, I don't think Ben was comparing himself to Mandela or Socrates. I took it more to mean that he had been inspired by their examples. Sort of like me with Reagan and Thatcher ;-) Tom, I don’t think Ben was comparing himself to Mandela or Socrates. I took it more to mean that he had been inspired by their examples. Sort of like me with Reagan and Thatcher ;-)

]]> By: Tom Coates http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28942 Tom Coates Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:32:44 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28942 Actually, one more thing. I sort of think you've missed the point of Tara's post. If you believe in something, then you should fight for it and argue for it - because it is right and good. There are different tactics that you employ to get to the right position that you believe in, of course. All of this I agree with incredibly strongly. I have no desire to water down any position whatsoever. But your dotBen persona doesn't seem to be about getting these things done, it seems to be about being confrontational and challenging whatever the effect on getting things done. I would argue that you choose to argue <i>extreme</i> positions rather than fighting for <i>right</i> positions. What you've said above seems to be more about presenting positions that are equally wrong to the conservative ones in an attempt to balance things around truth. I don't understand that approach at all. Actually, one more thing. I sort of think you’ve missed the point of Tara’s post. If you believe in something, then you should fight for it and argue for it - because it is right and good. There are different tactics that you employ to get to the right position that you believe in, of course. All of this I agree with incredibly strongly. I have no desire to water down any position whatsoever.

But your dotBen persona doesn’t seem to be about getting these things done, it seems to be about being confrontational and challenging whatever the effect on getting things done. I would argue that you choose to argue extreme positions rather than fighting for right positions. What you’ve said above seems to be more about presenting positions that are equally wrong to the conservative ones in an attempt to balance things around truth. I don’t understand that approach at all.

]]> By: Tom Coates http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28937 Tom Coates Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:17:21 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28937 And also, are you <i>really</i> comparing yourself to Nelson Mandela and Socrates? And also, are you really comparing yourself to Nelson Mandela and Socrates?

]]> By: Tom Coates http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28936 Tom Coates Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:14:34 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28936 Yeah, er, thanks (!?) Matt. Ben - I think my old manager would find your characterisation of me as traditional and conservative kind of ridiculous, but that's another story. I get as frustrated as anyone by the lack of progress in these organisations, but I think that the way to fight these things is to work out the right approach and then fight diligently and work hard to achieve it, being as stubborn as you have to be to get things done. I don't actually think constructing totally absurd radical positions or saying things just to rile people is really an appropriate way to get anything constructive done in the world at all. I don't think of this as radicalism, because radicalism implies committment and committment implies work. The loud shouting stuff you put so much faith into just ends up looking like an adolescent move to get attention and seem cool with your friends around the back of the bike shed. In the end, it undermines your position as much as it helps you communicate it. If you want to change the world dramatically and for the better, I can't promise that I know the way, but I can tell you what I believe - that not accepting the status quo but fighting it with the best <i>ideas</i> not <i>rhetoric</i> is a good start. And that accepting when those ideas aren't going to work and learning from your errors is the only way to proceed to actually make real the changes you think should be made in the world. It's also an honourable way to operate. Yeah, er, thanks (!?) Matt. Ben - I think my old manager would find your characterisation of me as traditional and conservative kind of ridiculous, but that’s another story. I get as frustrated as anyone by the lack of progress in these organisations, but I think that the way to fight these things is to work out the right approach and then fight diligently and work hard to achieve it, being as stubborn as you have to be to get things done. I don’t actually think constructing totally absurd radical positions or saying things just to rile people is really an appropriate way to get anything constructive done in the world at all.

I don’t think of this as radicalism, because radicalism implies committment and committment implies work. The loud shouting stuff you put so much faith into just ends up looking like an adolescent move to get attention and seem cool with your friends around the back of the bike shed. In the end, it undermines your position as much as it helps you communicate it.

If you want to change the world dramatically and for the better, I can’t promise that I know the way, but I can tell you what I believe - that not accepting the status quo but fighting it with the best ideas not rhetoric is a good start. And that accepting when those ideas aren’t going to work and learning from your errors is the only way to proceed to actually make real the changes you think should be made in the world. It’s also an honourable way to operate.

]]> By: Matt Biddulph http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28935 Matt Biddulph Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:42:41 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28935 I worked closely with Tom Coates at the BBC for a number of years. I can confirm that he is quite the shit stirrer against the forces of conservatism. I worked closely with Tom Coates at the BBC for a number of years. I can confirm that he is quite the shit stirrer against the forces of conservatism.

]]> By: Hugh MacLeod http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28923 Hugh MacLeod Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:35:02 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28923 Mena did you a big favor at LesBlogs. Forced you to make choices. Mena did you a big favor at LesBlogs. Forced you to make choices.

]]> By: Dave Cross http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28903 Dave Cross Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:47:16 +0000 http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/08/15/why-i-have-an-extreme-alter-ego/#comment-28903 <blockquote>The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.</blockquote> -- George Bernard Shaw

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

– George Bernard Shaw

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